By Investigations Correspondent | ZimEye | A short video clip portraying the late President Kenneth Kaunda broadcast by the Lungu Administration 48hours before the 2021 election, that is being circulated by Mr Hopewell Chin’ono with which he accuses Zambian President Hakainde Hichilema is not in any full accessible repository as part of any interview.

An audit of all that Kaunda uttered in his interview series, is availed below. At no time does he announce the accusations Mr Chin’ono publicised on Friday night. The accusations are a replica of what Mr Chin’ono has labelled Nelson Chamisa at a time he (Chin’ono) was advising the Zimbabwe army to unleash terror on his party ( https://www.zimeye.net/2024/11/08/hopewell-chamisa-wouldve-destroyed-country-if-hed-been-inaugurated-president-of-zim-full-speech/. )

(We have reproduced the full text of the Kaunda series below).

The accusations have been published at a time the British Embassy in Harare has rubbished Mr Chin’ono’s claims that the consulate once conducted a police clearance of his multiple identities (and the money used to buy his first time which he claims was clean money) in a 2011, he tricked a staff member to write for him.

INTERVIEW WITH DR. KENNETH KAUNDA
Former President of the Republic of Zambia (1964–1991)
Host: Owen
Courtesy of Californian Beverages & Satellite Graphics Network

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Network

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Owen:
Your Excellency, 27 years in government is a long period. What was the secret, you know, for you to manage to be at the helm of this country for 27 years?

Dr. Kaunda:
I knew very well, Owen, that if we didn’t do that, the Boers would have destroyed Zambia. There’s no doubt about that. They knew what we stood for. They knew that we were fighting to free Angola, to free Mozambique, to free Namibia, to free Zimbabwe, to free South Africa itself. They knew that, and so they were fighting to destroy us. And so if we did not do what we did to bring the nation together, why would Zambia be together? Why would Zambia be with the Boers who were hell-bent to destroy Zambia?
And please see to it. What has happened? We’ve succeeded. Where is Angola today? Where is Mozambique today? Where is Zimbabwe today? Where is Namibia today? Where is South Africa itself today? We have succeeded. We managed to help our brothers and sisters in these countries in the right way. Fortunately, they followed.

Owen:
When you look at your 27 years as president of this country, what was your most exciting moment?

Dr. Kaunda:
Very good question. There are many. This is my problem. There are many. I think that he provided many agents, many happy moments for us, not for me as an individual, but for the nation as a whole. And therefore, the joy I have in the Rwandan nation has remained national.

Owen:
Now, 27 years, you as president of this country, in State House, you are the most powerful man of the land. How does it feel?

Dr. Kaunda:
I don’t know about that.

Owen:
How does it feel? How does it feel to be on that job? Is it a good job that even I, as a journalist, one day I should wish to be president of this country. I’m happy I’m talking to someone who was president for 27 years. I want to know, and I’m sure the viewers out there, I’m asking on behalf of the viewers there.

Dr. Kaunda:
Tell your viewers, young man, tell your viewers that nothing on this earth—nothing at all—can be more important than the commandment of the Lord God Almighty. I repeat, love God your Creator with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, all your strength. As to that one who has made his image like you, he commands, love your neighbor as you love yourself, and to others as you, we haven’t done until you.
Because of these commandments, see what we did for Angola, what we did for Mozambique, what we did for South Africa, what we did for Manana, Libya, what we did for Zimbabwe. It’s great. And our brothers and sisters in these countries thank us, thank us in a genuine way. Why? Because they know what we did, what we tried to do. God guided us. We followed his commandments. And these things are moving properly now.
They’re waiting for me now in Angola, Mozambique tomorrow for going to receive honor. You look at where? Our brother is not saying thank you for what you did.

Owen:
Recently we were honoured with a house in Namibia.

Dr. Kaunda:
Yes, indeed. Thank you. Namibia, a house, roads named after our humble self. What else do we expect?

Owen:
Interesting. So it’s a good job actually to, you know, to be president of the country—as long as you follow the two commandments. Isn’t that what you’re trying to say?

Dr. Kaunda:
Exactly. Well said. So long as you’re following these commandments, you will die.

Owen:
OK. I’ll bring this. I think I have two questions more. 27 years, there was also the pre-independence, the struggle for independence. But I think I’ll stick to 27. What do you think… We all make mistakes in life. What mistake do you think you made during your reign? And given an opportunity, 50 years ago, you were given the position as president, how would you do different?

Dr. Kaunda:
There would be no time in my life that I can ever say to God’s children in Zambia, everything I did was correct. No way. No way at all. I must have made many mistakes and errors. God’s children in Zambia will be able to point out those. When I say there were many errors I have committed, I’m not saying that without understanding what I’m saying. We are all human beings. We all make mistakes.

Owen:
Exactly.

Dr. Kaunda:
And therefore, I have no doubt at all that I made, I must have made mistakes. If the mistakes I made helped to put things right by some of our friends, and thank God for that. What else can we do?

Owen:
When you sit, you look at your reign, 27 years, and if such an opportunity was to be given to you, is there something that comes to your mind that you feel, if you had the power, you’d do that thing?

Dr. Kaunda:
There’s no doubt in my mind that my colleagues and I made many, many mistakes. We must wait for historians like you to bring this out.

Owen:
In 1991, you know, the country overwhelmingly voted you out of office. Did you feel betrayed looking at what you had done for the country?

Dr. Kaunda:
When the announcement was made that President Chiluba had won, I called him, said, young man, congratulations. I’m waiting to hand over to you here at State House.
I was in a type of reaction. It was in my mind when the announcement was made. That’s how I reacted. I didn’t show you, Owen, that I did not say the people of Zambia had made a mistake. At all, I didn’t. I said, Chiluba, young man, come. I’ll hand over to you. The Zambians have spoken.

Owen:
Your Excellency, I read your comment on this one. People say you never groomed leadership to take over from you. And they attribute this for you Nipa having even lost or not being in power now, unlike the other parties in the region. What’s your comment?

Dr. Kaunda:
I have no problem with that one because grooming leadership is not something that you can make choosing somebody. I’m going to make this one my successor. There were many leaders there, competitors. Some of them quarreled. And for me to appoint one of them and say, you’re going to be my successor, is not something that I would have done. At all.

Owen:
Okay. Maybe we move to the—quickly move to the next question. Zambia is this year celebrating 50 years of independence. What’s your message to Zambians as we celebrate 50 years of independence?

Dr. Kaunda:
I can’t do anything better than I’ve done already, Owen.

Owen:
Okay.

Dr. Kaunda:
In Zambia, let’s continue following those commandments is the answer.

Owen:
How do you want to see Zambia to be in the next 50 years when Zambia will be celebrating 100 years of independence?

Dr. Kaunda:
By that time, I want to see no poverty in Zambia. I want to see first-class formal education continuing. I want to see health services covering the whole country. I want to see peace in Zambia. Completely, Zambia completely peaceful.

Owen:
That’s quite good. One question, as I told someone that I was coming to interview, he talked about you being a vegetarian and that he would want to do that. How did you become a vegetarian?

Dr. Kaunda:
I became a vegetarian because I had thought of it as being correct. I don’t take meat, chicken, fish, eggs, and so on.

Owen:
Okay.

Dr. Kaunda:
I enjoy my vegetables.

Owen:
You enjoy your vegetables. Dr. Kaunda, how do you want to be remembered by future generations as Zambia’s first president? How do you want Zambians, the region, the world to remember you?

Dr. Kaunda:
I tried my best in a very difficult time. We had the colonialists all over us, and we had to help our brothers and sisters to come free also. Let us remember we helped our fellow freedom fighters succeed. That’s what I would say.

Owen:
Anything you want to tell the country, the world as we come to the end of this interview, just something that you feel you didn’t touch, you’d want to tell the nation?

Dr. Kaunda:
Nothing better than love God, your Creator, all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, your strength. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Let’s continue this by 2050, 50 years from now. Let’s continue.

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Owen (Closing):
Well, viewers, Dr. Kenneth Kaunda, first president of this republic from 1964 to 1991. A lot of lessons to learn from this interview that we’ve had with him.

For me and my camera person, Lamek Piri, and the entire production crew, on behalf of Californian Beverages, the manufacturers of Zambia’s favorite drink, Apple Max, I say God bless you.

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[Opening Segment]

HOST:
I’ll be welcoming my guests. So stay tuned.

[Intro Music and Program Return]

HOST:
Welcome back to Zambia Young at 50. Today we are honored to have the first president of this republic, Dr. Kenneth Kaunda — president of this country from 1964 to 1991. Dr. Kaunda, it’s a pleasure really for us to have you on this program, and you’re welcome, sir.

DR. KENNETH KAUNDA:
Young man, Owen, this is most welcome. Thank you so much. Most welcome.

HOST:
Personally, I think I’m honored to interview you as the first president of this country. It’s an honor to me.

DR. KAUNDA:
Most welcome, Larry.

HOST:
Perhaps first things first — on behalf of Californian Beverages, we would want to convey our 90th birthday wishes to you, and wish you many more returns. You still look very high, sir.

DR. KAUNDA:
Thank you very much. Thank you.

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[Segment 1: Early Life and Family]

HOST:
All right. So Dr. Kaunda, first things first, who is Dr. Kaunda?

DR. KAUNDA:
He is the last born child of the now late Reverend David Juriza Kawunda and his late wife, equally late wife, Helen Tengwera Nyamdirenda Kawunda. They came from a place called Nyasaland, those days, but they are called Malawi today.

My father came to Kinsali, my birthplace, my home, in 1994. First of all, he was going to be sent to South Africa by the missionaries, the Estonian Mission, but they changed that. He was going to be sent to Salisbury — Harare today. Again, they changed that and they sent him to Kinsali — for my fortune.

He came over there and he began teaching, spreading the gospel — obviously, in a very effective manner. Why do I say that? I say so because Senior Chief Imkuna liked very much what he was preaching. And he summoned him to the palace one day and he said:

“Young man, the message you’re spreading here is very important. I want you to go back wherever you come from. Go and get married there and bring your wife with you to come and continue doing what you’re doing now.”

My father obeyed. He went back to Nyasaland in those days. The following year, 1905, he came back. He went back to Chinsali with his wife. That’s how they began to work in Chinsali District. God gave them the wonderful gift of so many children. And I was the last one.

HOST:
Interesting.

DR. KAUNDA:
I was the last one — in 1924. On the 28th of April.

HOST:
28th of April, yes.

DR. KAUNDA:
I was fortunate to grow up under that late old man’s guidance.

HOST:
I actually did visit your place — your birthplace, and where your medical code is.

DR. KAUNDA:
Oh, I see. Thank you. Thank you.

HOST:
So yeah, you did grow under the guidance of your father, Mr. Kaunda?

DR. KAUNDA:
Yes.

HOST:
Reverend.

DR. KAUNDA:
Reverend Kaunda.

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[Segment 2: Marriage and Family Life]

HOST:
Okay. You’ve explained about your parents — where they came from and where you were born. And you were the last born, actually. When did you get married, and the children that you have?

DR. KAUNDA:
I was married in 1946 to a young lady whose parents had lived in Chinsali District.

HOST:
Okay.

DR. KAUNDA:
Because her father was working for a shop called Mandala Shop. In 1928, when she was born, her parents were in Chinsali District, running Mandala Shop.

At the time when time came for her to be born, my mother was asked to go and help her mother. So my mother received her in this world. And they were there — I don’t know — and then her father transferred them to Mpika Boma, Mpika District. And were there in 1947.

My mother used to go to the Copperbelt to help with the program of spreading the gospel. She was doing that, and when she was passing through Mpika, she remembered that she had received this little girl sometime back. So she stopped there each time she was passing through Mpika. She was very happy that her own reception worked so well. And she was very happy with the girl.

In 1946, when she passed through there, she came back home and told me:

“Young man, I think you should pass through Mpika for this girl.”

So I went there and I was very happy. Very happy.

HOST:
But you had not developed interest now in this young, beautiful lady?

DR. KAUNDA:
I hadn’t seen her.

HOST:
You had not seen her?

DR. KAUNDA:
I had not seen her.

HOST:
Okay.

DR. KAUNDA:
And I didn’t even know that my mother had received her. But this time, my mother explained to me:
“She’s at Mpika. I received that girl, okay? And she’s doing very well. I think we should go there.”

And I passed through there and I found that she had done a teaching course.

HOST:
You were a teacher?

DR. KAUNDA:
I was a teacher.

HOST:
Okay — in Chinsali?

DR. KAUNDA:
Luwa Mission.

HOST:
Luwa Mission, okay.

DR. KAUNDA:
Luwa Mission. And I was placed under my father. Church of Scotland.
So, I went to Mpika. In ’46, I said, no, no, we must get together.

HOST:
So here’s a lady recommended by your mother, you traveled there, you met the lady, and you were happy with what your mother said?

DR. KAUNDA:
Very happy indeed, very happy indeed.

HOST:
And the decision was made that you should—

DR. KAUNDA:
—I’m going to get married.

HOST:
Interesting.

DR. KAUNDA:
So I went there — it must be July, I think July, 1946. And I went with a reverend called Johnny Mpuku, one of the people brought up by my father. He was himself a reverend and I took him with me. He managed the wedding very well.

We got married in a Christian way. Went back to Chinsali with another reception.

HOST:
In the same year, 1946?

DR. KAUNDA:
Same month — July.

HOST:
Wow.

DR. KAUNDA:
1946. And so we got married.

HOST:
So you never actually courted for a long time. That’s quite interesting.

DR. KAUNDA:
I was very happy indeed. And we grew up together extremely well.

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[Ad Break Segment]

HOST:
Interesting. We’ll go for a very short break.
Viewers, in case you’re just tuning in, you’re watching Zambia Young at 50, and today we have a special guest — the first president of this republic, Dr. Kenneth Kaunda. So stay tuned.

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[Segment 3: Children and Personal Tragedy]

HOST:
Welcome to Zambia Young at 50. Our guest is Dr. Kaunda, first president of this republic.

DR. KAUNDA:
We got these nine children God gave us. We adopted one, so ten. The kids grew up very well, we’re fortunate. But unfortunately, the third born was developing very well in politics. That didn’t please the children group. And the boy was assassinated. He was a very promising young man.

HOST:
Oh, that happened. You’re talking about Major Wezi Kaunda?

DR. KAUNDA:
Major Wezi Kaunda.

HOST:
Earlier on, you had lost a child in 1986?

DR. KAUNDA:
Yes, I was coming to that. It was another promising boy. He’s produced some boys and girls who are doing very well even now — my grandchildren. In fact, he died of AIDS.

HOST:
Died of AIDS?

DR. KAUNDA:
But the children he left behind have done very well up to now.

We adopted one child, one young man.

HOST:
One child. Sorry, maybe still on this child — I know I was too young at school — you came out strong to tell the nation that your son had died of AIDS?

DR. KAUNDA:
Correct.

HOST:
What made you to come out in the public? Because I remember by then, I think there was a lot of stigma about this HIV-AIDS?

DR. KAUNDA:
Correct. We’re poor young men. We had to do that — my wife and I had to do that — because we were leaders of the nation. And there was so much stigma around this disease of AIDS, HIV and AIDS. We had a duty to begin to put things right.
So we agreed that we were going to make this public — that our son, in fact, had been working for Mandala. But when he became serious, we moved him away from Mandala back to Lusaka. And he stayed with us at State House. Again, this was part and parcel of our process of helping the nation to understand that this must be treated as a disease — not something which would be looked down upon or not talked about.

So we were doing that. And when he passed on, he passed on from State House, and we began to explain now what had happened. That process made it very clear that our young man had died of AIDS. That was part and parcel of trying to fight this disease — a few of these diseases. And I think that helped quite a lot.

So, that’s that child. We adopted…

At that time, there were problems around Zambia and some children came from parents which also came from some neighboring countries. And one child was found in the streets. When we came to hear about this, we adopted the child. And he has grown up with us — very, very well indeed.

HOST:
Okay, that’s good. This is who — Chola?

DR. KAUNDA:
Chola.

HOST:
Okay.

DR. KAUNDA:
Chola.

HOST:
Good. What is he doing?

DR. KAUNDA:
Chola — almost an engineer now.

HOST:
Okay.

DR. KAUNDA:
Now, he’s Chola because he comes after the last born — our last born. Children — there are two of them, twins. And in our language, “Chola” means one who comes after twins.

We’re very happy we were able to contribute something to God’s creation in that way. We went to school — Canada, many places.

HOST:
So you were blessed with nine, plus Chola you adopted. And now two are late.

DR. KAUNDA:
Two are late now.

HOST:
So we’ll go for a short break.

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[Segment 4: Loss of First Lady]

HOST:
Welcome back, Zambia Young at 50. Now at this point, when we are actually recording this interview, Dr. Kaunda, you had just lost your wife — is it two years ago?

DR. KAUNDA:
I was coming to that. It was the end of a marriage. And we brought up the kids very well, I think, in a very happy way. Unfortunately, a couple of days ago, she left me. It was an extremely terrible thing. We had grown together very well. Brought up our children very well. And I didn’t think that she would leave like that. But somehow it happened — to my shock.

Well, we look to God. It has happened. I want to believe that she is in the hands of the Lord now. I don’t doubt that at all. Because of the way she lived, I’m sure she is received by God — His Kingdom.

And the kids she left behind are doing quite well. She contributed to the development of various marriages, creating their own families. And so she contributed to her family’s development. And you have to pray that she lived a life like that.

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[Closing Segment]

HOST:
Well, viewers, you heard for yourself Dr. Kenneth Kaunda, first president of this republic. He’s just been talking — he’s been giving us his brief background about his family and, of course, where he was born and how he married. I’m sure you’ve learned one or two things from this interview.

So in the next program, we’ll be discussing how Dr. Kaunda actually joined the struggle for independence. So look forward to this program.

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INTERVIEW WITH DR. KENNETH KAUNDA – PART TWO

Brought to you by Satellite Graphics Network, sponsored by Californian Beverages

Host (Owen):
Welcome to Part Two of our special series featuring the First President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr. Kenneth Kaunda, who led the nation for 27 years. We are privileged to continue this insightful conversation.

Dr. Kaunda, welcome once again.

Dr. Kenneth Kaunda:
Thank you, Owen. Thank you for having me.

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EARLY LIFE AND POLITICAL AWAKENING

Host:
You were a teacher in Chinsali when Zambia was still called Northern Rhodesia. What inspired you to join the struggle for independence?

Dr. Kaunda:
I started hearing about the African Congress, led by Nduku Sitalewanika as president and Robinson Nwodiato as secretary-general. Their discussions about the injustices in Northern Rhodesia deeply inspired me.

Before this, we had the African Welfare Society in Chinsali District. There, we would analyse and critique colonial injustices—saying, “This is not good. That is not fair.” It helped shape my political thinking.

Host:
And you were still a teacher during this period?

Dr. Kaunda:
Yes, I was. And even as a teacher, there was no restriction against getting involved in political activities. I remember I often had disagreements with some missionaries. Once, I quarreled with a Scottish missionary teacher—I don’t even recall the issue, but I was very upset.

As we discussed the behavior of colonial administrators in the African Welfare Society, my political consciousness grew stronger. So when I heard about the African Congress, I knew I had to be part of it.

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FIRST POLITICAL ENGAGEMENTS

Dr. Kaunda:
In 1951, I was invited to a conference by the African Congress. I travelled alone, but unfortunately, it was cancelled. I returned to Chinsali, where we had already established a Congress branch, and I served as its Secretary. My friend, the late Robert Spiro Makasa, was the Chairman. He was a headmaster in Nkula, and we met regularly at Chinsali Boma.

Later that year, we travelled to Lusaka to attend another conference. There, we heard several inspiring speeches from our leaders. It was at this gathering that we met a young man named Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula. He impressed everyone with his powerful message. At one point, I even shouted, “Long live Harry! Death to the traitor!” and the crowd applauded.

By the end of that conference, Nkumbula was elected president, taking over from his late brother, Levy Mwanawasa (Editor’s note: possibly meant Godwin Lewanika). That marked a turning point.

Host:
Did you contest any position during that conference?

Dr. Kaunda:
No, I didn’t. I had to return home quickly.

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RETURNING FROM SOUTHERN RHODESIA

Host:
After that conference, you returned to Chinsali as both a teacher and Congress secretary?

Dr. Kaunda:
Yes. The conference had been held at Kibwata Hall, and afterward, Nkumbula renamed the movement to African National Congress (ANC). As president, he appointed several young leaders, and I was made Provincial Organising Secretary for Northern Province—which then included what are today Northern, Muchinga, and Luapula Provinces.

Let me go back a bit. Around 1946/47, I was headmaster at Luba Mission. My colleagues, including Robert Makasa, Joan Sokoni, and Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe, had all completed teacher training. I later went to Munali to complete my Form Two.

In 1947, we—Kapwepwe, Sokoni, and I—decided to go teach in Tanganyika (now Tanzania). My colleagues went ahead, and I followed. But when I got there, I found the working conditions poor, and none of us were happy. We returned to Northern Rhodesia.

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STRUGGLE AND SACRIFICE

Dr. Kaunda:
Back home in Chinsali, I taught for six months. Later, I saw an advert for teaching jobs in Southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe). I went, but again, the conditions were very poor, so I left.

With no money, I sold an army sweater my brother had given me. On the train ride home, I met a kind family from Chipata who shared their food with me for the four-day journey. I’ll always be grateful to them.

I returned to Lusaka, then found work in the Copperbelt, assisting a white man managing a compound for mine workers. I didn’t enjoy the work, so I returned to teaching in Mufulira, where I reunited with John Sokoni.

Both Sokoni and I were deeply interested in politics. On weekends, we travelled to Congo to buy and resell second-hand clothes in Mufulira. Eventually, we saved enough to buy two green bicycles.

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ORGANISING BY BICYCLE

Dr. Kaunda:
We decided to return to Chinsali. I sent my wife to Batumpika, and Sokoni and I travelled with our belongings and bicycles by train to Mpika, then by truck to Chinsali.

Sokoni dropped off near Chibesakunda, and I continued to Luba Mission, where I joined my mother and older sister at a farm started by my brother. My wife joined me there.

With the bicycle, I began organising the province, covering the entire area—which today would be considered three provinces. It was a vast and difficult task, but we were determined.

Host:
What motivated you to endure all that?

Dr. Kaunda:
It was the injustice. There was only one school for Black children, while there were many for white and Indian children. There was only one hospital in Mufulira for Africans—others were reserved for whites or Indians. This discrimination had to end.

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FAMILY, FARMING, AND SACRIFICE

Host:
You had left your teaching job, bought a bicycle, and were organising a province. How did you sustain your family?

Dr. Kaunda:
At one point, my wife started teaching, which helped. But mostly, we survived through farming—growing vegetables, maize, and other crops. It was all about sacrifice. We didn’t enter politics to gain anything. We did it to give.

Host:
Remarkable. Dr. Kaunda, I must say, this has been one of the most insightful discussions. Your sacrifices and determination are truly inspiring.

Dr. Kaunda:
Thank you, Owen.

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CLOSING REMARKS

Host:
That brings us to the end of today’s episode with Dr. Kenneth Kaunda, the founding president of Zambia. We’ve learned so much about his early journey—from teaching to national liberation.

Please stay tuned for the next edition. From me, Owen, and the entire production crew—Lamek Piri and the team—thank you for watching.

God bless you, and goodbye.

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